Stacey McKinnon: Welcome to another episode of Couchside Conversations. I'm so excited to be here with Patrice Benning, who's one of our wealth advisors. I'm Stacey McKinnon, the chief operating officer and chief marketing officer here at the company. And today we're going to talk about a topic that I think is really special to both Patrice and I. Because we like it when people are willing to discuss anything with us, when they'll just bring their open souls and open minds to just be honest and vulnerable and have discussions.
But we realize that that's really hard to do, and it can be tempting to kind of hide in the background and not open yourself up to somebody about your financial situation or even your personal situation. So the topic of the conversation today is questions you're too embarrassed to ask, or maybe topics that you tend to shy away from.
So we're going to get into this a little bit and maybe hopefully give you some confidence into having these discussions with people who can help you make better decisions for your life. Okay, so my my first topic of conversation I want to have with you is how you handle the dynamics around managing both like your career success, investments of your time and finances, and investment into your family.
Because I think those two things sometimes can feel like conflict with one another. And not a lot of people talk about how that conflict can actually work together as opposed to be against one another. So will you just share your perspective on this?
Patrice Benning: Happy to. And I know the two of us can can talk about this at length. And when I think about the modern family today, there's loaded plates that everyone is handling. And we're trying to figure out how to not to break the plates, how to keep them all up in the air. The biggest thing that I'd say, there's three things that come to mind is our work life balance or lack thereof.
And as you know, I'm not a personal fan of that particular tagline. I think it should be more of a a dance or a rhythm or a synergy that we need to think about. Because when I think about balance, I think the visual of a acrobats up high in the air on a tightrope with a stick and having work on one side and life and lifestyle on the other, and it's never going to be a perfect balance.
It never is. Sometimes work will take precedent and sometimes family will take precedence. So our ability to stay flexible and nimble is going to be most crucial.
Stacey McKinnon: Yeah, I think about it as like the Mission Impossible movies from like, you know, the early 1990s, early 2000, you're like trying to achieve some like Phantom of work life balance, but it doesn't ever actually happen.
Patrice Benning: Not not really. And for good or for bad technology nowadays... the way we communicate has made it very easy for us to stay on top of our workload. But I think there's definitely some, you know, it's a side effects to that in the sense that, yes, we can go on vacation with our families, but then we can also like sneak out and pull out our laptop and do some work, which we think we're being efficient.
Look at us, we're getting some work done. But I'm also in vacation, so I think it's important for us to really set boundaries when it comes to that, because we're not really giving 100% to work, and we're really not giving 100% to our family. And what ends up being is that we feel guilt for both sides.
And the truth be told, you know, I personally, I kind of want to have it all to0. I want to have the career. I want to have the best parent award prize as well. And if I don't kind of prioritize, how do I make that and create, you know, totally pockets and schedule family activities that are important to me that have to happen.
And I think that's really when we think about work life. Synergy is really quantity. So quality over quantity. Yeah, I think that's really what my personal take away from that is. Second, and this is something I've really heard from, you know, my friends, my circles. Is that kids nowadays that has taken on a whole new dimension, not just the academics, but also athletics and extracurricular activities.
So we are probably now in this new era, I call it the professionalized childhood.
Personally, I know I've done this. I've probably scheduled every moment of my children's lives with activities to max out their potential to make sure they're set up for success, and I'm sure there are thriving and happy. Right? I'm sure I've done a great job by that. But when we think about it is that we really have to figure out, like, to what end are we doing this?
Like, what's the end goal? It's almost like I'm there on this treadmill and they're running, but we're not sure what we're running to. So I can tell you that when my son was six, I had the soccer coach coming to me, telling me that I've got the next Messi on my hands, and I should absolutely committed to this particular rigorous training program and the tournaments and the miles that I had to put to go to tournaments.
Also, kindergarten was important because, you know, if it wasn't for the right elementary school, my child's not going to go to Harvard. So there's that. Yeah. How about music lessons? Maybe I have the next Mozart on my hand, and I really need to explore that part. And he's only taking two AP classes. What a shame. Looks like a community college will work out just fine.
My heart rate is going up this year. As you're talking.
So I think it's it really. Let's let's pause parents. Yeah. Let's pause families because we really have to allow our kids to have an opinion to tell us what's important to them, what exactly they want to do. And we need to cherish them based on their intrinsic value, not based on how many accolades they get, how many prizes, how many awards, our trophies.
So I think if we can do that, we will set them up for success and just create a much more confident and healthier human being. At the end of the day.
Stacey McKinnon: Yeah, me doing everything you think is in your best interest, but really, it ends up being that you don't always do everything at an A+. You do like a million things at a, B or A, sometimes a B minus.
Patrice Benning: And I think the third point, and this is something that I know that you have addressed in a prior cut side conversation, but kind of the whole thing about keeping up with the Joneses. But I think taking it further with like maintaining this picture perfect idea of a family where social media becomes so important in our lives. And I think taking it further, it becomes very important in our children's lives.
And now we have to battle like we ourselves are kind of measuring and comparing ourselves to to something that's not really real. But then we have to also worry about the exposure that our kids have to that. So having open discussions around what's realistic, identifying, you know, and being grateful for what we have right now, I think is, is very, very important.
And transparency around that, because we have to let our kids know that what social media shows is not real. And I'll share a little fun story that, my husband and I, we were going on a nursery dinner. This was one night to celebrate our anniversary, and, somehow we got into this little fight at the dinner.
I don't know how we managed do that. As we were arguing, and it was quite intense. I remember being quite angry, actually. The waiter comes and he was like, oh, try to see. Let me take a picture. And I was like, so we both were startled and we said, sure. So we we cozied up next to each other smiling.
Okay, absolutely. And then he took a picture. And what do you think I did that picture that showed this really happy couple. I posted it on social media and everyone said, happy anniversary, you know? And meanwhile I was like, gosh, I was so angry at him in that moment. So why did I do that? You know, is that really real?
And but nobody wants to see a sad picture. Nobody wants to see my husband and I fighting, probably.
Stacey McKinnon: So I totally get that.
Patrice Benning: So it's interesting. So those are the things that I think the modern family battles nowadays. So kind of to segue more into some of the topics that as advisors, we really deal here at Morgan. I know you work with a lot of families that are wanting to start estate planning in some shape or form. Yeah. Where do you feel is that moment where they're kind of shy to ask you questions about legacy planning, and how do you handle that?
Stacey McKinnon: Well, I guess just as a starting point, estate planning in general is like an avoiding like people avoid that at all cost because it basically is talking through death. And what will happen if I'm alive and not able to take care of my affairs, or if I'm not here anymore. And most of us, like, rightly so, don't want to talk about that or acknowledge that.
So I think estate planning in general is a topic that a lot of people don't feel freedom in discussing openly. But there's a few things within estate planning that I think people get really gun shy on that I think we can maybe debunk some of those. And so the first one is, let's say you're doing estate planning for you and your family, and you have young kids, and you have to make a decision of who's the guardian of your child.
If something were to happen to you. And this topic just makes people frozen, they're like, if I ask my brother, then your sister is going to be mad. And if I ask your sister, then my mom's going to be mad and you go back and forth and go in circles. I think that something that's interesting is you can actually think about guardianship, as two guardians, not one.
You can think of it as the person who's going to take care of your your children, meaning who's the person that's going to give them the warm hugs you want them to get? Who's the person who's going to maybe, hold them disciplined to education in a way that is empowering and aligns with your beliefs and values. That person could be a different person than the person who financially takes care of your kids.
So you could choose two people. You could choose, you know, your brother and my sister or whatever and say, hey, you're the one who I think being raised in your household would be an experience that would align with our values. But you could also say, but I think this person could manage the financial affairs and they could send the money and they could take care of bills and save for college and manage that aspect of it.
And sometimes I think it's easier to choose two people than one. It's also a little bit safer because if you have the same person managing the money as taking care of your kids, there's no like, accountability to how those transfers are going to happen and what that money can actually be used for. So that's one topic that I think people tend to shy away from.
But I think there's some easy solves. And if you brainstorm with the right person of like, how do I frame this message in a way that feels like I won't offend someone in the decisions I'm making? That's really good.
Patrice Benning: I can tell you that, I might be the dentist with the cavities, but I think that decision is almost paralyzing and it paralyzed me because we had kids, and I don't think we did our estate planning for 15 years. And it was truly because of what you just mentioned, because we, my husband and I could not agree on who we thought like, to your point, it's like, who's going to do this?
But then that person is good at this, but not, you know, the discipline part. Like it would be great with the education, but it's like, but that person doesn't believe in sports. So it's like we want something. I believe in sports. So it's it's really not an easy decision. But having people that you can bounce ideas off of that are very much removed from your bubble, I think is important.
So I think as advisors we can definitely help make it safer.
Stacey McKinnon: And the thing to remember is that if you don't have a written estate plan, the state of California probate courts is going to make your estate plan for you. And so it's better to have something down than to have nothing down. And oftentimes we have clients even write a side letter that say, this is why I made this decision, and this is what we thought was meaningful.
And we love all of you. And thank you all for investing in our child's life. But this is the person that are going to care. And you can make it. You can do things to like ease the pain if you feel like there's a conflict. The other thing I see on estate planning is if you have adult children, which adult children do you choose to handle your affairs?
If something happened to you. And this can be an area of conflict because a lot of people choose their kids to all act as co trustees together. But that is such a pain. Everyone has to sign everything. Everyone has to be in agreement. It kind of makes it like go crazy. I would do that if I felt like there is children who maybe wouldn't trust one child over the other to manage your affairs for you, but that's something you have to think through.
Or hire a professional trustee to do it, to take your kids out of it so that they don't have that conflict. Best case scenario is if you have children that get along, having one child maybe be the primary for financial decisions and another child be the primary for health care decisions. If you are in the hospital and you need a surgery and you need someone to make that decision and your partner spouse is not there, who's the person that you trust to do that?
And so I think that there's ways where it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We can kind of pick and choose and figure out messaging and communication. That feels really empowering.
Patrice Benning: Yeah. And I think to your point, and this is something that I remember, one of my dear friends, her mother had assigned her with the having the health care directive. Yeah. To pull the plug. And she said I, I can't do it. And she's like, I don't know why mom assigned this to me. And it's very interesting because we sometimes think like our closest children because, you know, that they may be the best fit, but we might not realize that closeness may inhibit them from doing more rational decisions when it comes to the wishes of their parents.
So really, there's a lot it's not a very cookie cutter type of process by any means, but.
Stacey McKinnon: So and maybe even have a communication plan for how you're going to tell people what role they're going to play and how. And we do those types of meetings with our clients children all the time. One other financial planning, topic that I think sometimes evokes the sense of conflict is around life insurance. Oftentimes we have families where maybe one person works and brings home income, and then another person doesn't work.
Patrice Benning: And when you're having life insurance discussions, it might sometimes feel like, oh, the person who works your life is valued at 2 million, and the person who doesn't work your life is valued at 500,000. And that does not feel good. It doesn't feel good for anyone, ever. And it can cause this, like really awkwardness. And I highly recommend, like, not framing it as value whatsoever because we know for a fact that that's not what that actually means.
But you put a dollar on it and all of a sudden people feel insecure about it, too. Can you talk a little bit about how you navigate those discussions and what mindset you recommend people having as they go into it?
Life insurance? It's very interesting. So life insurance provides a very specific needs. Right. And you know, if I'm a parent in particular, if and I have small children, if something happens to me and my partner, is there enough for the kids to be taken care of, right. But what's really interesting and this kind of came out even I went on a really fun girls trip with four of my closest friends.
And we're talking about life. We're talking about our families. And the conversation drifted to life insurance. I don't even know how, but, one of my dear friends at the time, she, was not working outside the home, and she literally said, I'm just a stay at home parent, like I, you know, I don't need life insurance.
And I said, really? Yeah, let's let's talk about that. And I said, why? Why do you say that? And she's like, well, I all I do is I take care of the kids. So what's really interesting, I, I kind of challenged her idea of, I am just a stay at home parent. And I said, that's kind of think about all the roles you're currently doing.
So let's think about the fact that you are a household manager. You are the chef. And she's actually a very good cook. You're the nutritionist, you're the schedule planner.
Stacey McKinnon: So many.
Patrice Benning: Things. You are the conflict resolution person. You are a life coach. Your emotional support. You're the event planner. You are the CFO, you're the budget heir. So there is a lot of things here that it's not that you're doing more than your partner. It's just that together you have different roles, and it's important to acknowledge your value.
It's important to acknowledge your partner's value as well. So I think when we think about life insurance, it's not that I am worth more or they're worth more is is really figuring out what if something happens to me. You know what what we what do we need to do to prepare for that.
Stacey McKinnon: That makes sense. Yeah. And then in addition, with life insurance, I think sometimes people, think of it as like a planning tool for college or education or that they can utilize the cash value out of it and so they buy these life insurance policies that are maybe sometimes misled on, like, what they actually can and cannot do.
Can you share a little bit about that? Yeah.
Patrice Benning: We actually had some inheritance money that we received. This is about 7 or 8 years ago. And there were definitely earmarked for our two boys. And I happened to me, that insurance agent, and he saw it as an opportunity to sell me two wonderful policies, which I at the time did not know a whole lot about. I'll be very honest, I was not in this role.
I financial planning was not even on my radar. And, it sounded great at the time because it's permanent life insurance. It's a whole life policy, which means that I will be making payments for life. They're fixed payments. So regardless what my financial situation looks like, good or bad, those payments are set. And then those payments will eventually build cash value.
Which it sounded wonderful because he had told me you can pull money from these particular policies when your kids go to college. So in my mind, I was having hundreds of thousands of dollars in this cash values. But, that's not the reality of it right now, I'll tell you that much. So I think the policies are great.
And if life insurance was something that was important to me, and I wanted to make sure that I fill a gap, it's still definitely a great tool. It's also great. Yes. It's true. You can pull the money from the cash value so I can use it for my for my kids education. But I would say it's not the answer to everything, just because there's other investment vehicles out there that you can utilize successfully or even more successfully to accomplish the same goal.
Stacey McKinnon: And you need time for that to be like, accomplish. And also, yes, sometimes you don't always need life insurance on your children either. If, like you don't need to replace something if something happens to them as well. So that's also something that occurs a lot, is people get sold life insurance policies that might not actually be necessary, policies that cost a lot of money.
Patrice Benning: Yep. So kind of tying into more of the investment side, like thinking about how we really think about our lives. Yeah, I feel like a lot of our clients, want to talk about for one k planning with us, but they're in the spot where they want us to know that they know a lot about their 41K, but they really don't.
So how do you navigate that discussion?
Stacey McKinnon: Well, I think it goes back to what I shared at the beginning. Like we don't aren't taught financial planning. We're not taught finance in schools. We go out into the world and we make lots of decisions without having the education and the background. So when you go into 400 and K planning, it can be really easy to just, if you're working at for an employer, have whatever the consultant is that the employer hired, just tell you what to go into.
Patrice Benning: And then you just kind of set it and forget it. Or maybe you just put it in cash because you're paralyzed and you don't trust the stock market, or you don't trust your own decision making. I saw some statistic more recently that something like 60% of 401 K's are in cash, just because it feels like paralysis to make those decisions.
And it's hard because not all the selections are that are great. There's a lot of selections in there that maybe have higher costs or fees aren't actually diversified, although they imply that they are. So when someone comes to me is asking about their 401 K, usually I direct them towards the target date funds. If they can't be managed by an advisor and and custom selection like we can do with some types of oral in case, the target date funds that are a little bit tricky, like if I was to retire in 2050, I probably would choose a 2045 target date fund.
I would de-risk it a little bit because, there's not a lot of transparency into this, but those targeted funds are actually really risky. They have a lot of stock exposure in them, and even the bonds that they select inside this target date funds are not always the hot like safest of vehicles. So I think that it it makes sense to de-risk a little bit on the target date funds.
Something you know about target date funds is it gets more conservative as you get closer to retirement. So what's nice about that is it kind of automatically is rebalanced to be an appropriate risk level as people enter retirement. Those target date funds get a little bit less risky, but they're still more risky than I think our investment philosophy are what we would like.
Stacey McKinnon: In a perfect scenario, you would hire an advisor to do a selection that's based specifically on your needs, your goals, what you want. And ideally has nice diversification benefits inside of it to.
Patrice Benning: I remember this is when I first started investing in my first one K and I was I thought I knew it all. It really did. Again, this is all of 25 year old myself here. And it's interesting because I thought these target date funds, it's going to take me to the moon. And I think I started investing in the first one K right before, like the 2000 tech bubble burst.
So again, that was probably early on. But what's interesting is that I was completely uneducated. I did not even consider my risk tolerance. Anyhow, granted, I was young and time was on my side, but I would say a lot of people do the set and forget when they're 25 and then at 45 or 50 you might not want that much risk.
Stacey McKinnon: Exactly. So I think it's it's like, don't be afraid to ask. I think it's like being it's we're here to help and even kind of bounce ideas back and forth as just a good sounding board. I think that's really important that we can provide that.
Better to ask than to not ask. So one other financial planning, challenge that people face is just having conversations around debt. In the world of finance, debt can be seen as a good thing because you can use debt or leverage to, make investments and buy things that you really want. Your mortgage on your home is a good example of maybe good debt, but there's a lot of debt out there that is debt that people feel a sense of embarrassment around or feel regret around.
And so there's solutions to help solve the debt problem. But first, you have to admit that you have debt and you need some solutions to solve that problem. So how do you help people just navigate conversations around debt and navigate it? Not from a place of embarrassment, but rather from a place of I want to make different decisions going forward than maybe that I've made in the past.
Patrice Benning: So what's interesting about debt is that if debt in the modern time looks very different than debt in the past, even if we think about our parents or grandparents. So what I've noticed, and kind of what the trends show, is that nowadays, yes, people still buy a mortgage, but they're looking to upgrade and they want to live in upscale neighborhoods because they want to set up their kids for success, for having access to better schools.
So they're going to get a higher mortgage as a result of it. That whole social media image. So I'm going to pay for a luxury car, which is going to have higher monthly payments and higher interest attached to it. I also want to have my kids extracurricular activities. It's kind of ties into our like, just kind of the first point of our conversation.
And, you know, private school and tutors and the paying for the sports and paying for extra people to help your children with that. So you now kind of you work hard, but you're going to be like, I'm just going to use debt because I'm going to look like a rock star on the outside, but not really. And kind of have this, you know, spiraling downhill on the back end.
So there's no really there shouldn't be any shame around it. I think it's like we carry it inside because we feel guilty. We know that we should not be doing certain things. So I think it's again, it's important to pause if and and figuring out assess where you are. Yeah. Figure out your spending strategy, understanding, you know, how much income are you bringing in, what are your expenses.
Right. And then set realistic expectations around what can you actually do. Right. So and have the conversation with the kids. I'm a firm believer and really figuring out like the kids can say, I'm turning 16, mom, and I want that Audi. You know, when I drive to high school, I want that Audi. And it's like, just because maybe we can afford that.
This doesn't mean like the shift of those resources can be allocated to some other bucket that's going to benefit the child. So it really comes down to to your values and being real and not really trying to keep up with this particular, you know, I don't know, cloud and facade of of things that, you know, people are trying to figure out how to manage to.
Stacey McKinnon: Yeah. And I think sometimes debt ends up in a spiral. Right. It's like the debt compounds and instead upon debt upon debt and I, I would definitely recommend that. There's a, there's a term in psychology called the fresh start effect. And it's when you get to make a decision that from this day forward, you're going to make different decisions going forward.
Patrice Benning: And what I find with people who have a lot of debt and they want to pay it down, is it feels too big. It's like I have $30,000 in credit card debt. I just don't even know where to start. You know, I think you start with $1,000 a month or $2,000 a month. You start with whatever your budget, to your point, can afford, and you make incremental progress.
Stacey McKinnon: And then when you pay that down, you declare it's a fresh start day, like you're going to do something different from now forward. Otherwise it oftentimes feels just like too big to handle.
Patrice Benning: I love that. And kind of from that segue into something that overall, I think the modern Family today tries to figure out how do we how do I manage it all? Stacy. Like, there's there's so much that I need to feel like I'm accomplishing and I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.
And I think that if you don't have a good handle on what you value, that can get out of control really quickly. So as an example, I am willing to do as much as I possibly can. As long as my marriage is not sacrificed along the way. If my marriage starts to become like sacrificed in any way, I will stop and I will reset and I will do something differently.
Stacey McKinnon: So for me, more is not better. More is only better until the point where it turns the corner and like impacts other relationships that I have in life. And so I think that knowing like what your tipping point is, knowing what you really care about and being able to accept that maybe I won't make more money or I won't make a lot more money, but I will be happy and I'll have a good marriage, and I'll have a life that I love that has just the right amount of stress, but not too much stress.
Patrice Benning: And I think understanding what that tipping point is, is a really healthy like perspective to take. Well, that was a great conversation. I loved everything we discussed. I feel like we opened up a can of worms and a lot of different areas, but good, a good can maybe like a can of, I don't know, pumpkin pie.
Stacey McKinnon: That's about it. That's a better way to say it.
So we're going to play a game now, this or that, which is one of my favorite games. So I'm going to ask you a question. And you just have to kind of like off the cuff, tell me what your thoughts are. Does that sound good? That sounds great. Okay. So first question for you. Do you talk to your kids about finances or do you not.
Patrice Benning: 100% talk to your kids about finances? And that's I think I am personally pained that there's zero education in our in our school system. That's probably subject to change right now, actually, with the new law that's coming down the pipe. But, I think more is better in that particular area and start early. We've talked about this. Had kids like even the, the money mindsets for kids.
It's set before age seven. So like if we think that, you know, whatever we talk amongst us, the partners, the kids are not aware and what we do and you know, what we showcase is absorbed 100% by our kids. So have those conversations around the decisions, the purchases you make. And that's going to be set the children up for success.
Stacey McKinnon: And you don't necessarily have to tell them how many assets you have, but you can tell them the why behind your decisions. And I think that's really healthy.
Patrice Benning: So now to you, Stacy, let's think about spending in between partners. Do you would you like to have your own account and spend your own money, or are you a proponent of having a joint and everybody spends however they want to?
Stacey McKinnon: I like a joint account, but I mostly like a joint account because I like the accountability. Like I think it's actually healthy to think to yourself is what I'm spending valuable to myself and my family? Sometimes I find when you have your own separate account, it can just like, get unwieldy, you know, and spending is like your own secret.
Patrice Benning: And I just prefer in my relationship to not have secrets. And so I, I think having a joint account for me personally is more empowering to my relationship with my husband.
I like that there's there's some people that may have very different opinions. I know that I have friends who are very like, they like my own accounts because.
My husband's also not judgmental. So I think that that that counts. Like, you know, he's kind of he's a very go with the flow and he's not going to like, criticize everything I do it. Maybe if I had, a spouse or a partner who had like higher opinions of everything that we spend money on, I might probably prefer to have my own set aside.
The best kind of compromise.
Stacey McKinnon: Yeah, exactly.
Patrice Benning: The other part of it, which is, I know, kind of tying in to earlier topic that we addressed debt. So using debt now to make a purchase or you're going to defer save and buy later.
Stacey McKinnon: I well, I do a combination of both when it comes to low interest rate debt like mortgages or loans on like asset based loans. I'm more inclined to use debt to get what I want. Like, I, I like the idea of utilizing debt as an investment and making it, making smart decisions. As long as I can afford the monthly payment, I feel pretty good about the fact that I'm buying an asset for the long term.
What I don't do necessarily is credit card debt. So anything I spend on my credit card, I know that I have the money to pay off that credit card every single month, and I know that I have the money not from savings. I know that like I pay, I'm basically spending my paycheck on my credit card and not more than that, and I'm more disciplined that way.
Patrice Benning: So I'll think to myself, oh, this, I should get additional income in X amount of months. And at that time I'll buy a new front door for my house or whatever, whatever the conversation is. So I'm a little bit more inclined to, be like conservative on credit card debt. But I'm more inclined to be aggressive when it comes to debt.
Stacey McKinnon: For like an asset that I believe will appreciate or grow over time.
Patrice Benning: Where we're on the same page on that for sure.
Stacey McKinnon: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining Patrice and I on this episode of Couchside Conversations. Please like, subscribe, continue watching our videos, and if you have any ideas, feel free to submit those too. Thanks so much.
